Spot on Jim - let's hope INCOMEDIA understand how important it is to have customers that tell what they find  wrong. All firms should love such customers.

Another kind of customers, are those that just leave, and you never really find out why.

Obviously +1

And Incomedia is not fair play !

Strange, Yesterday I posted this message https://helpcenter.websitex5.com/it/post/203020 in all foreign sections.

All have been removed. and just this one is present....

Why Incomedia removed the customer angry ... not good for marketing and money ????

Regards

https://wsx5.afsoftware.fr

I'm also disapointed... Verry, INCOMEDIA THIS IS NO WAY TO TREAT THE CUSTOMERS THAT IS YOUR LOYAT FREE DEBUGERS AND USERS... SHAME ON... +1

Elisa, you are totally missing the point. The issue is not speciifically with X5 v.17, it is much deeper than that. Over the past 2 years, Incomedia has been providing poorer products and asking for more money. From this post alone, it’s obvious that your customer base is rapidly losing faith in your company.

If Incomedia doesn’t turn things around quickly, I sincerely believe you will be gone within a year. It is a shame to see how much your company has degraded in recent history, and there are no signs of improvement.

This is not a formula for survival.

+1

Modelos e Objtos do Market Place deveriam ser compredos com dinheiro no momento que precisamos de algum deles, e não com pacotes de créditos, que além de muitas vezes não serem suficientes para o que precisamos, obrigando-nos a comprar novos pacotes, ainda nos dá o trabalho de termos que gerenciar esses créditos para não jogar dinheiro fora.

Charles, you should not judge a book by it's cover.

A few people are very upset, especially those who invested time in developing 3rd party code and solutions that no longer work (which unfortunately cannot be tested during a beta test primarily because it is not supported), and yes, there are a few unfortunate bugs which were missed in the beta testing. But in spite of what you see here, the majority of users appear to be quiet. As for this post remaining public I would be very surprised and disappointed if it disappeared.

(oh dear - I do hope I am not going to regret this post)

Hi All,

Thank you for your comments re my post, I will restate again that I like X5 it is basically a good programme enabling people like myself with no CSS or HTML skills to produce impressive websites. However, Myron Ain his post, dated 21st Nov is correct, the problem in itself is not Version 17, which is an unmitigated disaster (with a new beta release hot on its heels). Version 17 is symptomatic of the overall issues with Incomedia who seem to have lost focus on producing a quality update with a sufficient period for beta testing and effectively forgetting the end user, the customer who pays for the product.

Incomedia seems to be preoccupied with the concept of Update Protection to the extent that they are churning out updates (three in less than a year) to justify and sell Update Protection. Can you think of any other software company (Microsoft excluded), who have produced three updates in a year. These updates add very little to the programme apart from a new version number and more “bugs”. One user on the forum has suggested that Incomedia provide a free six months extension of Update Protection as compensation for the problems caused. Do I want six more months of the same even if it is free? No, I do not.

The problem with Update Protection, which is fundamentally a subscription service by another name, is that Incomedia sees it as a “cash cow”. I believe that with most subscription services the end user ends up with a substandard product.

Why do I think that a subscription service invariably reduces the quality of the product? With a subscription service the company after a very short period of time is able to very accurately predict their income and what the “churn rate” will be, the “churn” is the amount of subscribers who leave and the amount that join.

Most companies have a figure in mind of the profit that they want to take out of the business, the better companies tend to reinvest more of their profits back in the business. Therefore, if Incomedia have a figure in mind of the profit that they want to take out of the business this is subtracted from the income leaving the remainder to fund software development and run the business. This results in a poorer quality product going forward, as for the subscribers Incomedia are not really concerned they have a captive locked in subscriber base for a year who have paid upfront with Incomedia putting the money in their bank account earning interest.

If you compare this to a marketing strategy where the company has to be innovative and produce a leading quality product that is better than their competitors in order to attract new customers and grow their customer base, it is very obvious which company will have the best product with continued improvements and stay in business longer.

I have a great deal of sympathy for Stefano G and Elisa B, who are doing their best to help resolve users issue and stem the flow of complaints, with what I suspect is very little support. The same goes for the forum moderators and the forum users who are supporting X5. Users raise their issue to find resolutions and also to help other users. They also are able to point out and explain various tricks etc. to get the best out of X5, thereby helping to “sell” the product. Whilst Incomedia should be concerned and take on board the genuine issues raised by the forum users, they should be more concerned about the “silent” users who having bought X5 and cannot get to work as expected have quietly sent to the delete bin and told everyone they know not to buy it.

I think that it would be a good idea if instead of repeated emails about introducing a friend to X5, the main men or women of Incomedia emailed the users with an apology and explain what they are doing to sort out the issues with updates and more importantly what they are doing to prevent any reoccurrences of these problems.

Again, I stress that X5 is a good programme, however over the last eighteen months or so the writing is appearing on the wall for the longevity of X5 and Incomedia.

It is still not too late to turn things around, but you have to have the will to do it.

Once again, I hope that this post is not removed.

Thank you for taking the time to read my post, like most users (and moderators), I want X5 to survive and continually improve.

Jim

Esahc said, “A few people are very upset...”

Are you serious?

You need to get your head out of the sand.

If this thread doesn’t look like a big problem for Incomedia, then think again. On average, one disgruntled customer tells 10 people how they feel, and then those 10 people tell 10 others. Get the idea?

This is a HUGE problem right now for Incomedia, and they need to call all the fire fighters in California to put this one out.

And they need to fix this situation NOW.

Hi Elisa B,

Thank you for your feedback, I agree in principal that the concept of frequent updates during the year is sound, but only if the said updates are substantive or necessary to correct some problems.

Unfortunately, Incomedia are currently unable (or unwilling?) to produce substantive, quality updates that perform as they should, that do not contain numerous “bugs” (I am not talking about 3rd party coding here). This has been the position since at least Version 14, with the latest Version 17 (not the “newest” Version 17), being the worst offender so far.

With each new update, I find myself at best spending a considerable amount of time checking my websites to see that they still perform as they should and as they did with the previous version, (again I am not talking about 3rd party coding). At worst I end up with numerous “bugs” that take a considerable time to resolve, having to wait for the follow up beta to become main stream in order to resolve these “bugs”. In many instances some of the “bugs” are never resolved and seem to be quietly forgotten about by Incomedia.

Fortunately I do not have many websites and produce them “as a favour” for some friends or for charities. I dread to think about the impact these flawed updates have on anyone with many websites or who are using X5 to produce commercial websites for a living and the amount of hours involved in trying to resolve these issues.

Please listen to your customers who like X5, care about X5 and want it to continue.

Surely, it is time to for the directors of Incomedia to sit round the table with the staff involved and have honest and meaningful discussions about where they are and where they should be and review their strategy.

I believe that in every business there are some fundamental questions that should be frequently asked:

  1. What do we do well?

  2. How can we make it even better?

  3. What do we not do well?

  4. How can we make it better?

  5. If we cannot make it better, do we need to do it in the first place?

Unless Incomedia urgently review their strategy and resolve these update issues, I fear that this year’s Incomedia staff Christmas party may well be the last.

Jim

+1

People I am happy with – Esahc, Elisa, Stefano, KolAsim

Posts I support 110% Jim C, Myron (Many others)

I had several issues with version 17 that I reported well over a week ago, and the latest version that Elisa mentions, seems to have corrected most of them, but not all. The biggest problem I have is with the ‘Catalog Viewer’ which has not been corrected in the 17.0-6 release, so version 17 is still useless to me.

However the issues reference the business model which Jim and Myron eloquently comment on hold substance. 

Website X5, however much it is denied, is now subscription software, and expensive at that, especially if you have the professional version. For the most part you are paying for what you have already got over and over again, equivalent to about the full price around every two years. That’s not a maintenance fee, it is extortion. Furthermore, before this subscription model, you could remain with a version and have support for that version as long as it was supported. This no longer seems to happen. It’s almost better to buy a new version every 4 or 5 years and not have the so called protection. 

As for the Credit Model. I can’t think of a word for it, that won’t get me banned. If you must have a credit model, it should be that once Incomedia have your money it is valid until it is spent (IE No Expiration – After all what is it to Incomedia if you don’t spend it. Expiration, to all intent and purpose, despite the fact that we have no choice but to agree to it is, after it has expired, is no better than theft). But, better still don’t have a credit model, just buy every extension as you need it and pay with your credit/debit card or PayPal (or similar) like most other decent shops on line. Why do I say this? I have most of the extensions that I want or need. (In fact I DO have most of them). Earlier this year I had about two credits left, and I wanted only one extension. I needed about 10 credits more to get it, but I had to buy the full minimum package to make it happen, the remainder of which will probably be unused till they expire. This is no way to do business or impress anyone. It is a model that needs to be revised or eliminated, it is unjust.

 Objects

The quality of some of the objects as alluded to in previous posts, leave quite a bit to be desired. For example, I was pleased about the long awaited and overdue ‘accordion text.’ In reality, it is quite abysmal, relying on a set size, and if it is not met, it will but in a scroll bar whether you want it or not. Options are minimal.

 Continuity between objects are often not present. For example the Catalog Viewer and Audio Player both have a download icon, but one is a different design to the other. Hover over the download icon in the Catalog Viewer and a Screen tip shows, but hover on the Audio player download icon, there is no Screen Tip, nor is there options on either of them to turn them on and off. The quality of a site relies on its continuity. It seems as though the creation of ‘objects’ is sub let without any specification as to what the end product must be. The Catalog Viewer, seems quite archaic in design with few options to make it look presentable. The impression I get is that the objects give the ‘idea’ of something good, but there is little control.

Why is there no spell checker? – People here have been crying out for it for years.

Conclusion

I spent 4-5 months solid work creating my main site, so yes, I feel quite gutted when I have spent so much time getting something working that was previously fine, that a new improved release of the software does not work as expected, and no longer fit for purpose, as though we, the customers are the testers. Every time a new version comes out, my first thought is, ‘Is it going to work? – and, do I really need to go through my entire site to make sure it works properly?

Yes I love and adore the concept of the software, and I have had many an enjoyable hour creating my sites – it makes site building easy, especially when I had the earlier versions, but now it feels like a nightmare, especially now that the business model makes it very much more expensive and the quality has dropped considerably. If the business model is not reviewed considerably, I will be forced to make decisions on whether I renew in the future.

Hello Jim C.

No haven't returned to this post multiple (many) times, (possibly over 300+ times just to see people get a rise out of the view count, hahaha JK) to see any updates; but rather ony to see the same points being made over and over again. I can only assume that Incomedia has heard your cries and intends to address this. Best regards to everyone and hope that you all will find the answers that your so eagerly looking for in regards to a better website building product.

AJ