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William J.
William J.
User

Update query  en

Autor: William J.
Visitado 1147, Seguidores 2, Compartilhado 0  

Hi I would like clarafication on your update protection. I have been following the post 

Update protection (bait or real thing?)

so to my point, If I do not choose UP I stay at the last ver I upgraded to and do not get ANY more updates correct?

If this is correct then what about the bugs within the program that need fixed and have been reported/working on? If they are fixed in a future version will we be able to get an update for those?

I understand and accept that we should not get any updates for new features etc and if we wish to use them then we choose to pay for the upgrade.

So the bottom line as far as I can see is the software has a problem when I purchase it and its not fixed within the year and I don't pay for UP then I am left with a program that dosent work as it should. If a fix comes out in a later ver then I have to pay for it? Should we not get this patch free?? other software vendors follow this line.

If your intention is NO upgrades ( patches ) for anyone if they do not Choose UP then you must see why customers feel as if they are being held to ransom??

William

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25 RESPOSTAS - 1 ÚTIL
Nigel B.
Nigel B.
User

+1

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Aleksey K.
Aleksey K.
User

+++1

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JJ. JUAG
JJ. JUAG
User

I think the situation is clear:
You purchase the program including 12 month UpdateProtection. So you get the right to use max. 2 computers for the purchased sotware for unlimited time and an update / upgrade permission for 12 months. If you extend the UpdateProtecion within these 12 months there is the corresponding price. If expired is unknown to me, then how are the costs for reunited.
Since one to two upgrades per year are possible, this is also included in the update protection. When the new version is released, the old version is usually not developed anymore, so there are no more updates for it.
As long as I want to continue working with the program, I think it's a must to use the latest version. Since the older versions uaf the PC can remain, I decide defies the self to be converted to the projects in the new version.

In principle, this is synonymous with microsoft so, updates for Windows XP can only be obtained for a lot of money.

JJ.

original german:

Ich denke, die Situation ist klar geregelt:
Sie erwerben das Programm inklusive 12 Monat UpdateProtection. Sie erhalten also das Benutzungsrecht auf max. 2 Computern für die erworbene Sotware für unbegrentze Zeit und eine Update / Upgrade Berechtigung für 12 Monate. Wenn Sie innerhalb dieser 12 Monate die UpdateProtecion verlängern gibt es den ensprechenden Preis. Wenn abgelaufen ist mir unbekannt, wie dann die Kosten für wiedereinstig sind.
Da ja pro Jahr ein bis zwei Upgrade möglich sind, ist auch dieser im Rahmen der Updateprotection inbegriffen. Wenn die neue Version erscheint, wird in der Regel die alte Version nicht mehr weiterentwickelt, es gibt also keine Updates mehr dafür.
Solange ich mit dem Programm aktuell weiter arbeiten will, denke ich es ist ein muss die neueste Versiion zu verwenden. Da ja die älteren Versionen uaf dem PC bleiben können, entscheide ich trotzt dem selber an die Projekte in die neuesete Version convertiert werden.

Im Prinzip ist dies auch bei Microsoft so, Updates für Windows XP sind nur noch für viel Geld zu erhalten.

JJ.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi JJ. JUAG,

if the situation is clear why are so many users asking the same question? You say

"Since one to two upgrades per year are possible, this is also included in the update protection. When the new version is released, the old version is usually not developed anymore, so there are no more updates for it."

If that is true then surely you can understand the frustration of users. I purchase a product that does not work as it should. I report the problems and it still has not been fixed. A new ver is released and by your statement their are no more updates for the previous ver so we are effectively being held to ransom, pay for the UP or stick with a program that still has flaws which should have been fixed and now will never be fixed. At least Microsoft and others continue to give updates for a peroid of time after a new version has been released.

One example of this is the Parallax flicker. To my knowledge it has been reported in a few versions and still has not been fixed. By your account if true then it will never be fixed or we will have to PAY for it to be fixed??

This is why this has turned into such a hot topic for Incomedia. Think of it this way. You purchase a new car. it has a few problems and you take it back to the Garage. The garage fixes some of the problems but are having difficulty fixing others. Your warranty runs out and the garage informs you that a newer model has been released and unless you purchase an extended warranty they will not fix the remaining problems. Does that sound fair?

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Nigel B.
Nigel B.
User
William J.
Hi JJ. JUAG, If that is true then surely you can understand the frustration of users. I purchase a product that does not work as it should. I report the problems and it still has not been fixed. A new ver is released and by your statement their are no more updates for the previous ver so we are effectively being held to ransom, pay for the UP or stick with a program that still has flaws which should have been fixed and now will never be fixed. At least Microsoft and others continue to give updates for a peroid of time after a new version has been released.

+1

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Michael M.
Michael M.
User

1+ all final versions should be in working order plz stop with the planned obsolescence

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Aleksey K.
Aleksey K.
User

interesting that if you buy 17 version, then again have to wait a year for a stable version)))) and so on the circle

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi William,

I see your point.

I confirm that if you decide not to extend the Update Protection it will not be possible to receive any updates.

As you know, it is not possible to know if and when a possible bug will occur. This unfortunately could happen weeks or months after the release of a version. We believe that an advantage of the Update Protection is precisely to make the user independent of the owned version. So, if Update Protection is active, a fix added in the current or in a future version one does not make any difference, because thanks to this service the user can have access to both.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. Kind regards.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi Elisa,

Thanks for the clarification. Im sorry to say with that one line Incomedia has just lost a customer.

I feel that Incomedia is going down the road of a subcription only model and are attempting to push their customer base in that direction. They have now introduced a 2 tier system, those of us who purchased it as a stand alone product and those of us who sign up to the UP. How long before the stand alone product is dropped?

Your post above confirms this,

"We believe that an advantage of the Update Protection is precisely to make the user independent of the owned version."

Incomedia is asking us to trust them with update protection subscription. How is that going to be any different to what they already deliver? Will the bugs be sorted as a priority? will they ever be sorted? Will long awaited requests for new functions be implemented? We now know that they will definitely NOT be fixed UNLESS we sign up to your "subcription " model. How is that fair to your your customers? 

William

 

 

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Rubens D.
Rubens D.
User

Hi William, para nosotros los clientes no cambia el hecho de que Incomedia cambie su modelo de negocio. Te cuento que soy cliente de Website X5 desde la versión 12 y todos los años pago la nueva versión y en todos los casos encuentro errores que después del año, cuando sacan la nueva versión, la anterior ya no es corregida, no se le brinda mas sorpote, asi que sólo hay que seguir su juego.. 

Lamentablemente es asi.. reconozco que es un software que me ha dado buenos resultados, pero este modelo de negocio siento que no es muy honesto para nosotros los cliente.

Rubens

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi William, 

I can see your point, but please consider that we are not willing to make WebSite X5 a subscription service: in fact, even if you decide not to extend the Update Protection, you can still use the software normally.

Moreover, even if your Update Protection has expired, please consider you have still 2 weeks time to receive some minor fixes. I am now referring to updates which solve particular issues reported for the previous version. Still, there are some limits, and after these 2 weeks you will need to extend the service in order to receive fixes and updates. I wish to stress the fact that each issue must be considered on its own, each one needs to be monitored, analyzed and solved with a different timing, also because of its urgency level, which is determined by our development team.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. Kind regards.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi Elisa,

sorry I must disagree. Each issue should not be considered on its own, it's still the same software only the ver no is changed. It's the same program I purchased. John s post "parallax flicker" should tell you everything you need to know. If that can't be fixed in a year how is 2 weeks extra going to work? 

Incomedia is trying to force users onto a platform that they want to promote i.e. UP by removing the update process for existing problems. WHY would I consider purchasing UP when you cannot fix existing problems and if you do and I'm outside the UP scheme you will not release a patch/ update for us unless we pay for it. You give us no valid reason only that we trust you to do it. 

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

And now INCOMEDIA must know why so many users are sceptical about the new introduced feature of UPDATE PROTECTION. This post (parallax flicker) shows clearly why users are loosing trust in Incomedia. This post proves my point. I purchased ver 14 pro we are now on ver16 and STILL no fix almost a year later.

So if you release ver 17 and the parallax is fixed and I did not pay for UP then I loose out. For me to get the fix I have to pay £79.50 for somthing that should have been working in my version.

The parallax feature SHOULD have been working in ver14 from the start. And this is only one of many unfinished features within the program. BTW parallax WAS one of the reasons I purchased X5 Pro.

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Adobe went to the subscription model with their Creative Cloud. Unlike Incomedia, however, when Adobe introduced Creative Cloud, they still provided updates and fixes for their “old” CS6 software, even if you did NOT buy into their new subscription.

Now that shows a company that has integrity. Incomedia is totally scamming their customer base by NOT offering fixes for previously released versions, and then going ahead and introducing new versions (with new bugs) and charging for faulty software on an on-going basis.

What kind of idiotic business model is this?

Keep this up, Incomedia, and you’ll go most certainly go out of business. And it won’t be long.

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Nigel B.
Nigel B.
User
Myron A.
Incomedia is totally scamming their customer base by NOT offering fixes for previously released versions, and then going ahead and introducing new versions (with new bugs) and charging for faulty software on an on-going basis. What kind of idiotic business model is this? Keep this up, Incomedia, and you’ll go most certainly go out of business. And it won’t be long.

+1 I agree

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi William, 

please consider each issue must be considered separately because each one needs different timings to be monitored, analysed and solved: some issues can be fixed in a short time, but for others unfortunately the developers might need more time to provide a solution, just because of nature of the issue itself.

As previously mentioned, you can choose not to extend the service and wait for a version which better suits your needs in terms of new features and fixed issue. 

Thanks! Have a lovely day.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi Elisa, 

I appreciate that each issue is considered on its own and some can be fixed quicker than others but we the customer should not be held to ransom for said fixes.

so I have a question is the development team working on bugs for ver 14/15/16 or are they only working on the latest version?

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi William, 

generally speaking, the development team always considers and analyses every reported bug, which are then solved for the current version of the software. Of course, if UP is active for you, you can keep working with the most updated version of the software and receive all the fixes.

Please let me know if I can be of further help. Kind regards.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi Elisa,

So what you are saying is that the developers are only working on the latest version?

"which are then solved for the current version of the software"

what about the bug I report in my version that I have paid for if I do not subscribe to Update Protection? If the bug has not been fixed by Incomedia within the year (which can happen) then we are left with a substandard product because Incomedia has failed to address the problem.

I have a few weeks left before my period ends and I must choose to pay for UP or not. We should NOT have to pay for ongoing problems with the software. NEW features yes (which I don't see a lot of )but not bugs that are suppose to be fixed in the version that we purchase.

It looks to me that the version number is really a scam. I personaly do not see anything really different between ver 14 and the latest version. Changing the version no is just a way to try and justify the UP program?

I know we have been here before but I really think incomedia need to have another look at this. How about an open poll to customers to see if it is what customers REALLY want.

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Giuseppe Guida
Giuseppe Guida
User

+1 for William J., for Myron A., for Rubens D.

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Donald B.
Donald B.
User

Once again, please remember that we, the customers, the sales people, the programmers and the support people are not running this company.  I've already expressed my opinion in another post about update protection. It's all about continuous profit/income under the direction of the owners-CEO-Board of Directors and or stock holders. Not a huge increase in profit once every 10 to 18 months when a new version comes out. They have to make payroll, pay themselves and cover overhead every month. If they don't then they headed down with the Titanic at the bottom.

There's only three other programs left IMO that's worth having and one of those has gone to what they call 365 protection the same as X5.  Currently I am not using X5 but will renew my license because I may want to use it in the future. I'm still using computers at work/school since 1974 and at home since 1990. A lot of programs have come and gone. And I believe that X5 is priced fairly for all the included features. Also if you like how X5 operates and it's facade, not being a WYSIWYG program, but a frame type with the very uncluttered and visual icon type interface, there is nothing else like it.  Think about what you want and the price doubles after your license expires or shortly after.

Bugs? There's hardly a program that's worth anything today that does't have a bug or two. I'm a CAD designer and that type of software costs around 4k, and then about $1250 a year to recieve any updates (service packs).  If you don't pay for maintenance then you have the current release at the time of purchase, that's it! Can you inmagine if X5 charged us $200 and then aother $50 to recieve any updates.  The cat litter would hit the fan.  People would be tearing their hair out and jumping out of windows.  One last note: that "high end" software that costs 4/5k base and up to 30k for extra futures? That's right, it crashes and freezes up on a regular basis.

It's simple, when people stop purchasing and or updating their license then we will all be going to a private unspondered forum.

As Aretha Franklin sang, "you better think". 

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Wayne B.
Wayne B.
User

I decided to try it out for the next year and extended my upgrade protection. Hopefully, it was a good decision!

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Barry Maloney
Barry Maloney
User

One must remember that the UP is at a discounted price to that of a new purchase.


Most other cases one would purchase say version 2 and you would get all minor updates for that version. When version 3 is released there is normally no further updates for version 2.


With the UP system you get the updates/ upgrades for 12 months, no matter what version. During my 2017/18 year the versions went from 14 to 15 and now 16. With the old system I would be stuck with 14 unless I purchased a further 2 upgrades.


The web is changing rapidly, and we need to keep up with the technology. Website X5 have thousands upon thousands of lines of code. There are sometimes it is better to release a new version than try to patch the old one. It’s a bit like a tube in a car tyre. If there are to many patches in the one area it will not run smoothly and needs to be replaced.


I use several programs in my day to day work, many are subscription some require upgrading from version to version and others are like WebSite X5.


I know my relationship has been a little rocky with Incomedia but over all I would say the UP is fair 

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

Hi Donald, Barry

you both make very valid points. I have to hold my hands up and accept you are quite correct in your explanation. I agree that we as customers rely on companies to produce products for us but forget that they have overheads as Donald points out. 

I have said from the start that I like X5 and was looking to be convinced to keep using it, both of you have managed to convince me to give it another go so I will be renewing UP. 

William.

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William J.
William J.
User
Autor

ok just an update on my last post. After careful consideration and reading through various posts I have decided that the Update Program is not for me. I don't feel that Incomedia are taking their customers concerns seriously. I purchased ver 14 and in 1 year we are at ver 17?? when you compare 14 to 17 how much of a difference is there in the program? not a lot in my opinion. We still have bugs from ver 14 yet to be addressed and very little in the way of objects being introduced which by the way WE have to purchase at extra expence.

The post "Incomedia where to now" again has very valid points. 

I like X5 but not Incomedias business model. I don't make a habit of paying for something without knowing what I am getting and that is what Incomedia are asking me to do. You can dress it up whatever way you wish but it is still in my opinion a subcription model.

So sad to say that I have moved on from X5 to pastures new. I will continue to watch what happens with X5 and use the version that I have.

william

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