Further more, for the benefit of other users on here, I will update this with true and honest updates as to how this complaint is dealt with, and further how quickly and/or professionally my other "Private" message is dealt with direct to support.

Keep your eyes on the ball users, for this is the way to be heard - follow this thread and add your own comments. The voice of many is stronger than the voice of the few...

As per above, an update - if it can be called that:

I emailed the email address that I was told to only two weeks ago for a seperate issue, to recieve an auto response:

Dear Customer,

this is an automatic reply e-mail by ***. As we have introduced

our new Customer Service System "Incomedia Help Centre" the e-mail address

*** is not valid anymore.



For technical or business questions please visit:www.websitex5.com/help.

Is this "Help" the very reason for this thread??

As mentioned, I said I would update.

I recieved a reply, which you can see in threadhttp://answers.websitex5.com/post/1558

Despite my best attempts at adressing, what a lot of users are actually getting really frustrated with, simply customer service and support.

My response was swift and short, not addressing anything, other than getting me off there backs - well guess what guys, I havent even started to put on my climbing boots yet. The internet is a wonderful place for making complaints well known...

Update to follow :)

Hello there...

I am in private conversation with the programmers of the Evolution9 upgrade for whom I have parceled up my website (4 to 5 Gbytes) for their study.

In other words, they are trying to make some sense out of the nonsense.

MY main bone of contention is that there are so many ways of saving in this new version that the whole process becomes non-coherent.

There SHOULD be progress bars for ALL saves!

I am never sure whether the software has frozen or whether it is actually saving and, on many occasions, whether it's just gone wrong!

What on earth was wrong with Evolution 8's methods of saving?

They were far less complicated and we got used to them.

The programmers seem to be trying to help those people who forget to save by making the process automatic and, in so doing, have mucked the whole thing up.

I NOTICE THESE PROBLEMS MORE, I suppose, because mine is around a 350-page project.

At the moment, I am continuing to use Evolution 8 and, any changes I make, I am trying to update my Evolution 9.

HOWEVER, I dare not replace my published website with this top heavy upgrade.

IF you want to try to see if it publishes ok, then try putting your online site into a folder on line and then trying the evolution 9 publish.

If it fails, then you can delete the evolution 9 and quickly move your evolution 8 site back into live situation from the folder.

I think it is also important that work or help done by admin for a client here should be written into the forum

What tends to happen with many forums is that the problem is solved for an individual but nobody puts the remedial answer into the thread!

Best wishes,

Nigel 

Awaiting the next level reply -

Seemingly, it appears that because I have "Copied" text written by ICM staff, its classed as abuse ;)

Struggling to assume how comments they make, and I repost, are classified abuse, but nether the less, my last "private" message, will either make a difference and I will raise my hands in praise for one specfic person, or I will post, publicly, and not just here, the entire service and history of this shambles..

SR do your best ;)

Seemingly, it appears that "copying" comments made by ICM staff is abuse :P

I will not waste too much time trying to figure that logic, only to say they are clearly ashamed of the comments they made, and did not want it visible.

Luckily for me I keep a running log, of exactly whats been happening, and depending on the final outcome of my last private message to Steve R, will determine if my reaction to such poor customer care, is founded or unfounded - whichever the finding WILL be publicly viewable, to several hundred thousand people directly associated to the websolutions world. Good or bad, the choice and final place of resting lay with ICM staff, in particulr Steve R :)

Ball is still bouncing right now Steve, make it count for something, instill my faith that you guys are not just after money money money, but actuallt care enough about those you get that money from to do the right thing ;)

It was quoted to me that a post i made was abusive, not to a person on here , not to the general public but to Incomedia themselves and all i was doing was complaining and telling them the truth and how i felt about their company and software.

I now think that Steve R has waged a personal vendetta against me by reporting pretty much all of my posts as abusive no matter what they say.

Well how about this, we want the contact details of the people who run this company so we can complain ABOUT THEIR OWN STAFF and i will not contact any staff through here as it just gets ignored anyway.

Good luck Paul with getting a real answer out of any of them, they are just doing whatever they can to keep the bosses of ICm sweet no matter what , even if that means P*ss*ng off their customers.

Well done Incomedia staff for signing your own resignation letters.

No doubt this post will be reported too but hopefully not until a lot of people have read it and formed their own opinion of the people in charge of this company.

Well one thing that I pointed out to both Steve R and Claudio, was that I run three very successful and busy websites, with many thousands of subscribers throughout, that are primarily based towards the web industry, and thus the name WebsiteX5 is often brought up, however it is up to those people concerned if they want my findings made as good or indeed bad publicity ;)

I did try and call the telephone number they are blazen to advertise on the website, to be met with the pre dated fax tone: Not sure if they are scared to offer a telphone number of if they simply have no grasp of the intesity of the complaints hitting them daily, and the scores of people moving over ot other software as a result.

Lets face it, its easy to bury the head in the sand, delete or censor posts made on "their" forum, however they have no control of the real world, and that is independant reviews - such as the 500 or more a day made on one of the websites I operate.

Word to the wise for anybody whop feel that this is my personal vendeta - its not, nor will I be hushed. I am a paying customer, and have been for several years, and to be frank, the costs keeping coming forward, and the service is constantly falling away....

Why, that is the question only Steve R and Claudio can answer, if they choose too :)

Oh well .... Every problem I have found I have found a solution even the top heavy failing to save - reninstall software thingy. I found that I had to access every page created and look at each element and found the reason it was falling over is that ceratin elements, namely images could be seen in the cell element but when that element was opened the image was not their, namely the top first element and side cells. I fixed all of them and I no longer have that top heavy saving problem. I have maximum threads under preferences. All seems normal. Most other problems are IE9 or server related. I have not thrown my hands in the air yet! Yes very frustrated but I will not move on until I find a solution - even if it takes many hours to sort it by myself.

I agree the spinning wheel is not the ieal method of showing but as I said in the last paragraph check each cell element, open them to see if they are valid. Since I did that I save quicker with no grey out and little missing spinning icon.

A test environment can never ever duplicate what we have placed in various cells, I know I used to copy and isert images from cell to cell but not the cell itself. Such things ie bad practice caused my problem. I had to get to understand it and rectify my habits.

I too have many frames and thousands of cart items, yes I had a problem exporting, basically having to remove the cart from V8 copy and recreate it. It was the only solution. On importing if the images were not optimised from a rediculous byte value to a reasonable value,those images could be missing in the cells. The program seems to struggle as the image is in the cell preview but not in reality when opened.

They did say perhaps it was time to review your site .... I agree, this was in one of their docs.

Since I have done all these things, saving is a dream - all other problems except the ticker which is minor and I have adressed it by using a work around. Everything else works very well. I am not standing up for them but I will state if something does not work I get to the bottom of it even if it takes me time. I do understand peoples frustrations but there is more than one point of view.

Yes, live help would be nice but in this economy it is way too expensive. Facebook you are limited to how much you can say before it is swamped by someone elses problem or comment. It is not structured.

As far as the TOS is concerned for posting I did not know there was any besides common sense in using the forum.

I also notice a bit of a language problem in answering questions. English is not my first language. They do not even speak my first language Afrikaans. I noticed they often may not understand what I am getting at I have to spell it out very clearly and hope they understand. The forum in time will answer many questions ... almost a knowledge base. Give it time besides you gave it your money lol!

PS I do not work for them!

Erroll,

Whilst I fully appreciate and respect your views, it is my belief that you have misunderstood this thread.

I have come across issues with the software, both in the previous version, and that of V8 - However, the facts remain that certain things are pushed through and acted on, before the brain engages correctly.

Basically, the issues are not just about the frustration of many many users having issues that should not be issues with a beta tested product coming to market (whilst I accept there will be teething problems) it is about the lack of care, support and  obsurb methods these guys use for supporting "paying" customers.

They need to take stock of the questions that are put to them, they need to face up to the responsibilty of having software out that is full of flaws. But more importantly, they need to address each and every complaint, without hiding, sensoring, or blaming others. This has yet to be something that these guys have taken onboard.

Until they do, many more, like me, will continue to post and blog about the lack or professional care and support. This is a minefield of issues, but they MUST systematically resolve EVERY SINGLE COMPLAINT - The alternative is those customers WILL go elsewhere, and will tell 3 friends, who will tell 3 friends and so forth, before WebsiteX5 becomes the next failing after the MS XP fiasco back in the day, when Microsoft released a product unfit to be released, and lost millions in business, alongside the droves that went elsewhere when alternatives presented themselves.

Its a steady downhill sprial that can so easiely be avoided by facing upto the ideal that customers, meaning many many, are not satisfied, and are further infuriated by the lack of co-operation from support and customer care.

I have no issue resolving but a few technical issues, but to be hushed and bullied into spending more money for "new software" as "their solution" is not the way forward....

I do understand where you are coming from and understand the word frustration. It just seems as if there has been major changes at ICM, I mean major. If I remember correctly with V8 we did get and upgrade free of charge last year. Beta testing never ever irons out all the little bugs. Namely, we all edit differently - that is apparent. Who is to say the writer of V9 is the same person or persons who wrote V8. I had very little problems on V8 but have had a major learning curve on V9 of which I do not blame ICM. I am sure the small bugs will get sorted and we will get a free release when the time comes. Having been a software writer and concept writer for software I understand both limitations from the support people who have to communicate to the software writer by means of logical documentation. A whole lot of data IRO bugs, nice to haves, concepts have to be collected, ordered and agreed to before the next release. The fact support has a gap basically the are not the module writers adds to silence. Regarding a hush up - I wont comment on that area because I am not a parrty to it. There is nothing in my documentation to say they had to be transparent - that is a societal concept. I presume they watch Law and Order and perhaps that is what they are implementing and perhaps you are a special victim. One can only make observations based on experience but as a wise man from Japan once told me it is not all what you see that creates an observation it is what you think that colours it. We all tend to hold companies to 100% accountability without realising they are run by humans like us who are flawed.

Respectful writing Erroll,

I will say that like most things, the concepts come down to individual standards of what is acceptable. I will say, that I am sure you are aware, a company the size of Microsoft, made the very same error when releasing XP, that it was not ready for general popuylation marketing, and eventually they realised this error, after losing millions of dollars.

Whilst ICM are not in that same league, the concept remains, if a person or persons pays for a product, they should and can be expected to recieve absolute support from the guys who sold that product. If that support and backbonme structure are not able to deal with the influx of comoplaints, then maybe its time for the powers to be to sit back and evaluate the potential cost against the initial loss.

I currently run my own business, and have run several throughout the world. My concept is if "I make a mistake" I own that problem, no matter how personal it may seem, or how much scutiny I come under until its resolved.

So your comment:

"We all tend to hold companies to 100% accountability without realising they are run by humans like us who are flawed." is one that cannot hold water. All companies are totally and 100% responsible, and with those flaws, copmes the concept that mistakes do of course happen, but must then be addressed as not passing the buck or denying it was "anybodies fault" its the companies fault....

You must realise the concept that nobody remembers a good thing a company did, they only ever remember the bad things. Good news is never as fast to travel as bad news in business, and the effects of whats called the 3 by 3 word of mouth has put huge companies out of business. If 3 people tell 3 people, who then tell 3 people, you have 10,000's of people have heard that horror story, that even without any basis for concrete of fundamental truth has cost dearly - this is why its imperative that any complaint, no matter how insignificant, be dealt with prompty and with the utmost professionalism. 

This is the issue with the support and marketing of ICM products. Not an individual attack on any one member of staff. I do not know them, nor they me. But I have raised concerns, and have spoken for other members whos voice is not loud enough to be heard, and will and must continue to do so, with all resources available to me, until its resolved. I was "publicly promised" something that has now been retracted - thats the bottom line for me personally, and will make my views very publiclly known about this.

So it seems that after a significant delay (not truely surprised there) and several "hints or nudges" to come back with an answer, a certain ICM staff member has responded - he, himself, has failed to see, get this not what "I have written", but what "HE" has written.

Offers a refund, hides behind others to answer the request, made private, as he asked. Only to be told, sorry I thought you were talking about something else.

No refund - no service -  I think this was the very point, of why this situation arose in the first place - ironic at best, ignorant and naive to stepping upto the mark are other things that have been suggested.

I am actually collating a list of complaints to do with the service only. I have a string of names, who will be refusing to deal with Incomedia any further on the next level upgrade. I welcome your thoughts and suggestions and if you want to join the ever growing list, both here (clearly sensored) and externally, give me a shout - like I keep saying the voice of one is weaker than the voice of many.

Feel free to add your complain to this post, it will HAVE to be read. Dont fall into this ever growing trap that ICM keep offering, "Please post in private" - DONT

Make your voice heard, its a democracy we all live in, and we are each allowed our views to be heard and made public.

YOU are paying for these guys to treat us like idiots, lets make it stop - together, its a situation, that CANNOT be supressed and buried unless WE allow it....

Your MONEY is lining there pockets, make it count for something, make your comments here - but to avoid the excuse that has been used so many times, keep it truthful, not threatening, non abusive, but above ALL ELSE - Straight to the point...

Like I suspected - The bottom line is, and I quote:

Any user is free to choose if he likes the product and if he likes our support. If he don't like it, then it is his right to ask for a refund. 

So it seems that rather than address the lack of decent customer service, ICM would rather offer a refund. But heres the catch, they "WONT" give the offered refund. See my post at :

http://answers.websitex5.com/post/3037

and if you take a moment to read it and cross reference it, you will see that its a ploy to divert from addressing the concerns raised.

I at no point in ANY post, claimed to have, nor insuated that I had Version 9 - yet the particular person has used this false claim to avoid following up on that request that he directed to MYSELF and another user...

Be careful, maybe the way forward would be to use another program, and unindate them with refund requests, I dont know - what I do know is that this is something that only you guys can change. You will note that many users and paying customers have had posts removed, edited, and/or censored, so therefore, "maybe" this is a way to make other false claims that cannot be made good on customer service - after all thats all this post is about, making good on claims, offers, and reliable customer service. Nothing else, so like the thread states,

ICM - Complaint - Dont Be Brave And Remove - Simply Take Note..

That means address ALL the concerns that myself and hundreds of other users have....not use the ploy, "this is beyond me, ill just bury it and delay it until they walk away"

This is YOUR call, make it known that the service is in need of a vast overhaul...

Following on, I would like to point any user in the direction of the retraction made by ICM which if you care to read the ongoing communication, has for obvious reasons now been made public, and can be found at:

http://answers.websitex5.com/post/3037

This was based on, by admission, a "mistake" made by ICM staff for not correctly reading the threads and posts made, and as such now refuses to honour the refund promised IN WRITING, here on there own public boards.

If you care to offer your support, in aid to make ICM stand up and face the responsibilty to offer fair and honost customer service, please continue to share this thread. Clearly by having 31 shares to date, just on this thread, shows that I am not alone in this notion to make the voice of many heard.

Thank you :)

I have the same problems, the performance is poor and slow, it has break downs, and yes I agree this is like a beta...
V8 was much better, this is a step backward, if they dont solve the problem fast this will be a bad reputation.

Thanks for posting this.

Hello D. 

I suggest you to open a new post providing all the necessary info so we can better understand your issue. Thank you.