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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User

Expiring credits  en

Autor: Duncan Baker
Visitado 2753, Followers 3, Compartido 0  

I think it most unfair that credits should expire. I have bought some credits in good faith - admitedly when they have been on offer - but I do not see why they should expire.

I accept that templates etc may change in price, but, why should my credits expire. It is like I gave websiteX5 £20 and then, after a period, they tear it up and throw it away.

I bought credits thinking that I would be rebuilding my website shortly but the timescale has slipped and now websiteX5 tell me that 22 credits - which I have paid money for - are going to be cancelled on 4 December. That, to me, is theft.

I look forward to a positive response from WebsiteX5 or I shall take it to the ombudsman. I feel that strongly.

Duncan

Publicado en
126 RESPUESTAS - 23 úTIL
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

And I pay my annual licence renewal fee - which is fine. But I don't like expiring credits. 

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Tom G.
Tom G.
User
Duncan Baker
... It is like I gave websiteX5 £20 and then, after a period, they tear it up and throw it away...

No, Duncan, they don't throw it away. They keep it!

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Publicado en de Tom G.
Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

Nothing has changed. . . 

Incomedia say "we have just aligned to other companies which have adopted the Credits system". I may have lead a sheltered life, but cannot find these companies, perhaps someone here can provide a list so I can avoid them?. The credit system is similar to gift cards available in Australia, until recently these all had a 12 month expiry date, but due to a groundswell of user complaints most now never expire, those that do generally have a 3 year expiry. This new order of things was brought about by legislation.

In Australia: The law requires that most gift cards or vouchers be sold with a mandatory minimum expiry period of three years. The period begins from the date a gift card is sold to a consumer. Businesses can choose to apply an expiry period longer than three years and no maximum expiry period applies

https://helpcenter.websitex5.com/es/post/191041

If you would like to see how much users enjoy the credit system (which I personally like but they should never expire - at least whilst I have current "protection") use Paul's wonderful WX5 search

https://webx5.pro/search.php

and in the search field simply type "credits expire" - enjoy! There are pages of them :-)

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi Duncan, 

unfortunately I must confirm that Credits do have an expiration date. I fully understand your point of view and I really hope this won't cause any issues. Please consider we warn about the Credit expiration on the FAQ page, on the Credits Page and by sending some reminders e-mail: did you get them?

In your case, the credits will be active until next week: we have some new templates and objects you may want to check out, so to avoid the expiration of unused Credits. 

Please let me know if there is anything I can do for you. Kind regards.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I shall never buy credits again until I actually need them. I am very disappointed. 

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Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

. . . . . .and there are usually 5 freebies in the lead up to Xmas :-) Unfortunately few object cost just 5 credits.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

If we can buy credits, I do not understand why we cannot buy the items we need directly - when we need them.

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Tom G.
Tom G.
User
Duncan Baker
If we can buy credits, I do not understand why we cannot buy the items we need directly - when we need them.

Why? Because Incomedia would not be able to keep your money for expired credits! That's why.

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Actually, it is unfortunate that Incomedia does not realize how much this credit issue is costing THEM!

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William J.
William J.
User

Myron just another reason why I have left Incomedia. I had the same issue and the response was to just accept that this is the way they do things. Unfair to their users and just another way of generating income from their customers.

Incomedia should just do away with the credits and allow customers to purchase the objects, templates as needed. That would be fair.

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Tom G.
Tom G.
User

I wonder if all those posts regarding credits and complaints that they expire reach the management...

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Good point Tom. Do they Elisa?

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi Duncan, 

I can assure you I personally report the feedback we receive, especially if it is on a problematic subject such as the credit expiration. Unfortunately, reporting your considerations is at the moment the only thing I can do, and in case there should be any changes or updates regarding the matter I will be happy to inform you. 

Please let me know if I can be of any further assistance. Kind regards.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Thank you

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

A response from the powers that be would be ever so nice.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Not happy at all cry

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Tom G.
Tom G.
User

I am in the same situation. I wonder what Tamplate(s) or Objects you can buy for 6 credits...

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

It is tantamount to theft IMHO money-mouth

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Steven B.
Steven B.
User

Shame Incomedia isn't U.S.-based. That's illegal here. Many class-action lawsuits have been one against companies who do this.

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Tom G.
Tom G.
User
Steven B.
Shame Incomedia isn't U.S.-based. That's illegal here.

I will add it just for laughs - has nothing to do with Incomedia.

I found about 10 years old return receipt from OldNavy store in New York, which I got returning some merchandise. Credit for $30 or so.

Being in Boston, I visited the OldNavy store and presented at the register my old credit receipt. They took it as cash!

What a difference!

Just my two cents...

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Publicado en de Tom G.
Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi Duncan!

We are currently having a 35% off credits if you are interested, in this way you will be able to use the credits that are left before they expire. Please set the message as private if you want to proceed, so I can provide you with the link. 

Thanks! Kind regards.

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Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

Incomedia, they just dont get it do they !

Jim

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Publicado en de Jim C.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Thanks Elisa. The whole point is that I have just "bought" something I didn't want and will probably/possibly never use just to use up some of my credits. I have a few left that I cannot use as they are too few to "buy" anything and I do not wish to waste money buying yet more credits as I would only be able to use those for things I may never wish to buy.

I appreciate that you are not in a position to do anything about this but I would be grateful for the civility of a reply from Icomedia management as to how they think it is legitimate to take money off us for credits and then keep *our* money if they do not provide us with anything we wish to "buy". 

The software is great but the credits approach is not acceptable. 

I would appreciate a rationale from the management or a link/email address so that I can contact them directly.

This credit scheme should be scrapped immediately. I know of no-one else who deals is this appaling fashion. 

Duncan

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Giuseppe Guida
Giuseppe Guida
User

I agree with Duncan and all the other users: it is unfair that the credits have a deadline.

QUESTION for Incomedia: but what happens to you that is so catastrophic or what changes in "your life" if a user takes advantage of the credits after a year or two years? I would really like to understand the profound motivation of this decision (to say the least unfortunate!) of your company.

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Publicado en de Giuseppe Guida
Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User
Usuario del mes PL

Esahc,

This year there will be no free 4 credits :(

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Publicado en de Andrzej K.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Even if I use my credits within the timescale currently allowed, Incomedia has been sitting on my money - not me cry And, if I don't use them as I don't need them, Incomedia keeps the whole lot crycrymoney-mouthmoney-mouth

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi Duncan, 

I am really sorry about this situation. I have forwarded your request, so it can be discussed internally, and you should be contacted by e-mail. 

Thanks! Kind regards.

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Publicado en de Elisa B.
Axel  
Axel  
User

Hey Elisa,

The information done By Duncan is not a personal situation. tongue-out
It's the same for ALL users.
We lost our credits AND money, but NOT Incomedia !!! 

So in this case send an email to all of us ! 

Regards

https://wsx5.afsofwtare.fr

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Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User
Usuario del mes PL

Elisa,

It is a matter important for all users so please do not treat it like a single matter. I am really consider if it shouldn't be send to ECC-Net that deals with matters illegal in EU.

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William J.
William J.
User

Incomedia will not (unless forced to ) change the credits model. In short it makes them too much money imo. If you look at the model they use, the user will always be left with a few credits even after a purchase. This will then force the user to purchase more credits than they need in order to purchase an object/template leaving them with yet more unused credits. As far as I can see it's a no win situation for the user.

An easy way around this would be to introduce single credits to the users. Then if I was 3 credits short I could just purchase what I need.

Or just scrap the credit system.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Perhaps we should all just stop buying credits?

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Giuseppe Guida
Giuseppe Guida
User

Elisa, non è solo un problema di Duncan, ho dovuto anche in passato acquistare "forzatamente" degli oggetti che non volevo perchè avevo dei crediti in scadenza, anzi ti dico di più: i crediti in scadenza non erano sufficienti per acquistare qualcosa sul vostro Marketplace, ho dovuto necessariamente acquistare altri crediti che, sommati a quelli che stavano per scadere, mi hanno permesso di acquistare qualche oggetto. Ho dovuto anche spendere altri soldi che in quel momento proprio non potevo spendere, pur di non perdere quei crediti.

Google Translate

Elisa, it's not just Duncan's problem, I also had to "forcefully" buy items in the past that I didn't want because I had credits expiring, and I'll tell you more: expiring credits weren't enough to buy anything on your Marketplace , I necessarily had to buy other credits which, added to those that were about to expire, allowed me to buy some items. I also had to spend other money that at that time I couldn't spend, just to not lose those credits.

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Axel  
Axel  
User

The simple way is to leave the credits alive after the purchase with no limitations in the time.
Should be be a normal usage !

We use them how we want.

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Publicado en de Axel  
Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hello guys!

I agree with you that the situation Duncan is experiencing is the same one other users, including you, are going through as well. We got in touch with him specifically because he is the author of this topic, still if you want to directly report your own feedback or if you have a request linked to your personal credit status, please feel free to either contact us with a private message or by e-mailing us, we will do anything we can to try to meet your needs. 

Again, let me stress the fact that I have reported this post so to bring the attention back on this topic, but as I mentioned earlier this is all I can personally do at the moment. 

Thank you all for taking the time to share your thought on the matter. Have a nice day. 

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Axel  
Axel  
User

I said ..Money si back...

But this truth is not appreciated by Elisa which has removed my previous comment.

Elisa, it's true... and ALL users are impacted... So you can manage this issue for all and not one by one like you said... You have no time for that.

It's GLOBAL issue for ALL

I have already said this... your are not fairplay and you don't appreciated the truth !!!! 
In this case change the way to work with your customers.... because we are !!!

https://wsx5.afsoftware.fr

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Donald B.
Donald B.
User

Actually (as the truth or facts of a situation; really) for the fee that is charged for X5 Pro, all the features in the store should be included. Especially when you consider there's two other programs that have equivalent and more standard features for $60 US. The caveat with those is the learning curve and english/dutch only with translations available. If I had the time or retired I would be using one of those. Another program has bootstrap 4 as it's kernel with 3 auto breakpoints using layout grids for $149 US. No captcha/re-captcha with the forms so you would have to use google or 3rd party form like coffee cup.

But like most of the people here I'm locked in with X5 for the time being. I also would not mind paying the full price annually if everything was included, no problem. (I'd like to see two pro versions, one standard and one with the shopping cart.) But companies, marketing and sales think they have to find ways to milk every last dime out of their customers. Put the carrot out in front of your face and when you want that feature raise it up and the cost of course.

What's so odd about it is (I'll be nice here) they're only hurting themselves in the long run. So get as much as you can for as long as you can, that's the mindset. Then when the ship goes down the employees are baffled, cannot understand and scream what happened. And the rest of us look for another program to use. History repeats and repeats itself. As usual I'm sure the CEO and top mangers have no clue and only hear what marketing and sales fill their ears with. 

My two cents.

 

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Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User
Usuario del mes PL

From about 4 years I prolongated your programm. This year I don't and for now I stay with version I have. If you make new version of programm that correct errors mentioned by me and other users I will prolongate it. If not I stay with presenr version of programm it will not be outdated. But I bought other programm and start to learn it. I think the same do many users upset about your customer policy. I lost a few hours for manually adding the alt tag to your galleries for positioning (it is a few minutes of work your programmers). It is only example - you don't have to do this, I won't force you, but you shoot yourself in the foot. It is only my story but I am sure each user of Website has similar story and similar experience. Of course it is not your fault, Elisa, but your management and its policy. Larger enterprises disappeared due to customers leaving... Just think management guys.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I have received an email from Sara of the sales team offering me some free credits as compensation. I am not happy with this and am replying. It is not the right solution. 

Duncan

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John S.
John S.
User

I think that INCOMEDIA should tell all us users the reason why the credits should expire at all.

We buy and pay the credits. The credits cannot be used elsewhere. We cannot buy anything at Apple Store with the credits, so INCOMEDIA will have no obligations  to other. The credits is tied to INCOMEDIA. If a user leaves the X5, then the money is still at INCOMEDIA. And then they have some easy money as well.

Is there a law in Italy that says that if you have some money that you take care of for another person, and this other person have not asked for the money within a year, then the money is yours??

Would be nice to have a bank in Italycool

Is it because their system cannot have amounts without expiration date????

And why should the period only be a year?????

If it was  gift-card and it was in Denmark, then the period would be at least 3 years. Normally 5.

We trust INCOMEDIA. Like a gift-card it will be useless if the Firm is closed. We pay up front and trust they will give value for the money later.

Why not let us pay the cost when we want to buy a template or an object???

I have taken a break with the X5, so I have no actual need for credits, but I have alway thought the credit-system was a kind of humbug and was not a decent way of making business.

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Publicado en de John S.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Dear Sara,

Thank you for your email. But I am not happy with your solution. I will not accept those credits.

We should only have to pay for what we want - and not be robbed of credits we do not want or need. Currently, the number of credits does not ally with the number need to purchase. It is theft.

I demand that the scheme be re-thought so we only purchase what we need.

Duncan

On 05/12/2019 15:37, Incomedia Sales wrote:
Dear Duncan,

it's Sara of the Incomedia commercial team. I have been informed about the issue about your credit situation.

First of all, I would like to express how sorry I am about this, and I also would like to confirm, as my colleague Elisa also mentioned in your post, that your feedback will be reported so to inform the person in charge about how you, as well as other users, feel about the current credit system. I know you are specifically interested in the reason for the choice of making credits available for one year only. The choice of setting an expiration date is simply the result of internal company decisions which have been made as this system was adopted.

Now moving on to your particular case, let's briefly sum up your current credit status: you had 2 credits left from a 55 pack, which have unfortunately already expired, and you still have the 4 credits you got for free last year around Christmas time, which are due to expire on December 7th. In order to avoid the expiration of the 4 credits which are left, we can offer you a 10 Credit Pack for free, which again will be valid for one year. You will then be able to use the 4 credits until Saturday for the Advent Calendar offers, and possibly have some credits left for any other upcoming new feature published on our Marketplace throughout next year, and for the Advent Calendar as well, of course.

I really hope you will be happy with this solution. Kind regards.
Sara

_____________________________________

Sales Team



Incomedia s.r.l.

Via Burolo 22/A - 10015 Ivrea (TO) - Italy

EN &DE: +39 0125 1925777

IT: +39 0125 253491

Fax: +39 0125 362780

***

www.incomedia.eu - www.websitex5.com - www.webanimator.com

_____________________________________

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Nd T.
Nd T.
User

Полностью всех поддерживаю. Я ранее писал https://helpcenter.websitex5.com/es/post/217653#1

Очень очень плохо инкомедия лезит в карман к пользователям.У купленных кредитов не должно быть срока действия. Инкомедия выпускает мало обьектов для покупки. Если инкомедия отнимает купленные кредиты (заканчивается срок действия кредитов) то пользователь должен иметь возможность в любой момент обменять кредиты обратно на деньги. Допустим если не появились новые дополнительные объекты.

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William J.
William J.
User

Wsx5.afsoftware.fr

I too noticed that your comments were removed wonder why??undecided

I have said before and others agree that Incomedia need to rethink this sales model. It is heavily stacked in their favour. I found it impossible to use all my credits to purchase an object or template. I had to purchase more credits than required to make my purchase that left me with a few worthless credits thus ensuring that I would once again have to purchase credits, and so it went on.

Just one of the reasons I have stopped using X5. 

IMO I felt that Incomedia just pay lip service to their customers and really just want to squeeze as much revenue out of them as they can. It's not a cheap product by any means and as such should command a better service than they give.

Lets see how long this post stays up cool

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Giuseppe Guida
Giuseppe Guida
User

Incomedia ... We are many and we all think the same way: we don't want the expiration of those credits. This topic is becoming a popular plebiscite against your company...

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Publicado en de Giuseppe Guida
John S.
John S.
User

I can think of a reason for the credits.

As INCOMEDIA themselve is not able to have their own payment routine, they use 3. party software for the payment. And I guess they have a transaction fee for that. And then it makes sense that we can buy a bundle of credits that can be used for smaller transactionsm which they can handle in their own system.

This way we can "buy" more objects and templates and it takes only one transaction fee for INCOMEDIA.

This is okay and understandable.

I can also understand that when you have an amount that is not used for a long time, then you have to know "who does this money belong? - and do we have to return the money".

All this could be solved if there was a "renew" function for the credits.

If the credits was not renewed ( the owner is dead and the account still exist ) then they simply expire and INCOMEDIA takes the money. This is as it is today.

If the credits is "renewed" then a user is still alive and intend to use the credits at a later time. THIS WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE I think.

The credits should be renewable as many times as it is needed. When you renew a credit, then it will have a new expiration date from the date it is renewed.

This way, a living person will be able to use his credits when he want to - a dead person, or a person that no longer visits his account will lose his credits as they simply expire.

If you do not remember to renew credits you will also lose them, but this we could also accept as we get a warning.

INCOMEDIA could stay on with exactly the system they have now - all we users demand is a "renew" function.

Just an idea

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Publicado en de John S.
Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

Incomedia could simply use credits as another way to encourage users to renew protection. If protection is active then credits should never expire, but if protection lapses then the credits could expire after 12, 24 or 36 months? Dead people do not renew protection.

I still think this is basically unfair but Incomedia may see some merit in this.

I like the renew option, but I am sure this would require a bit of database management, maintenance & update.

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Axel  
Axel  
User

advent calendar is typically a weapon to sale credits ... nothing more for us

no gift, but again money.

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Publicado en de Axel  
Dieter D.
Dieter D.
User

I use X5 nowdays less and less.

Main reason is that I don't like that Inco gives me the feeling that they try to get more and more money out of the users by the yearly subscription (called "update protection"), the extra charges for all the objects and the strange credit system with expiring credits (most likely even against the law in Austria but who will be suing for the few Euros...?).

On the first glance X5 is not really expensive, second thoughts, with UP & objects extra charges, it has become a piece of software which is costing quite some money for the features offered.

On top I don't feel that there is real progress with the program itself. Users complain for years about the same features (shop, payment provider integration,...) but nothing really improves here. New releases are often very buggy so I'm not sure about the release quality (I usually wait a few weeks before upgrading).

By the way: the advent calendar is a joke, just offering small credit reductions on objects or "free" software (software that you find on other sites as well for free)...

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Dieter, that pretty much says it all.

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Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User
Usuario del mes PL

Dieter D.

100% right, better discount you could find at facebook profile than in advent calendar and calendar from this year is only for trying sell templates. Give more objects s usual, second example - polaroid gallery was free in last year calendar and now only four credits discount...

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Publicado en de Andrzej K.
Tom G.
Tom G.
User
Wsx5.afsoftware.fr  
advent calendar is typically a weapon to sale credits ... nothing more for us no gift, but again money.

Not true! There was free "Ashampoo UnInstaller 7"! wink

What does it have to do with WSX5? Should it be an invitation? wink

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Publicado en de Tom G.
Axel  
Axel  
User

clap clap Tom... Lol

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Publicado en de Axel  
Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

The other "problem" with the credits system, is that you don't really know if you are getting value for the money.

I.E. you bought credits some time ago and when you come to use them to purchase something at say 16 credits,

how much are you really paying for it...........Incomedia wins again !

Jim

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Publicado en de Jim C.
Jiper 85
Jiper 85
Moderator
Usuario del mes FR

Hi Jim,

It all depends on the choice of purchase. The screen copy below gives the value of the credit compared to the purchase made.

https://market.websitex5.com/en/credits 

J.P.

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Publicado en de Jiper 85
John S.
John S.
User

@Jim

You know how many credits you have bought for an amount of money.

You should then be able to calculate the price per credit.

When you buy an item then you know how many credit it costs and again you should be able to calculate the cost for the item.

It is true that the price per credit is dependent of the credit pack - and if there is a discount.

But if you are really interested then you could write down the cost per credit and again you should be able to calculate - even if the "price" for an object is taken from different credit-packs.

I agree it is a special system, but this is how INCOMEDIA has chosen it to be.

I think we could live with it, if only expiration time could be renewed.

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Publicado en de John S.
Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

I accept that by keeping track of the amounts of credits that I have bought and the various cost per credit (depending on the “discount” at the time of purchase), I can work out the cost of the objects purchased.

However if you look at the Incomedia site, you can buy 85, 55 or 25 credits.If you look at the objects available to buy, excluding templates (I am assuming that most experienced users would probably buy “objects”) the amount of “objects” available for “X” amounts of credits is as follows:

Object Quantity       Cost (credits)

1                                      24                                      

4                                      18                                        

7                                      16                                        

3                                      14                                       

1                                      13                                        

10                                    12                                      

6                                      10                                      

2                                       8                                          

3                                       5    

Given the amount of “objects” that have an odd cost (4 in total), invariably users will end up with a small amount of credits that will require “topping” up in quantities of 85, 55 or 25 to buy other “objects” or risk losing them due to the enforced time limit.  

Incomedia still wins.

Jim

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William J.
William J.
User

Yep it is designed that way for a reason, to force you into a no win situation. Once signed up to the credit system you will always loose some credits.

The best thing Incomedia could do for their customers is do away with the credit system and just charge a set price for the templates and objects. That way everyone knows where they stand and don’t feel like they are getting ripped off.

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Publicado en de William J.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Absolutely William J. I completely agree with you. Poor Elisa has borne much of the brunt of this - and I thank her an apologise to her for any dicomfort she might have felt. 

We really need someone from Incomeia to step up to the mark and say "I realise why you are not happy with this system - it is not fair to you, the customer - we are going to change it immediately. Henceforward we will put up the correct price for each object or template and you will be able to purchase them using a credit card or paypal."

It is not difficult Incomedia - just do it now please. I shall not be buyng any further credits - ever - ender the current system and I am actively looking for an alternative to WebsiteX5 as I am about to rebuild my existing websites.

I am quite disgusted with Incomedia's treatment of customers. 

Duncan

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Incomedia - are you happy with unhappy customers?

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I have jut sent this email to Sara of ***

Dear Sara,

Is Incomedia happy with unhappy customers? The credit system is unfair and is, basically, theft.

The number of credits does not accord with the values of the products offered so the temptation is to buy more credits which then expire. So our money is stolen.

I demand a satisfactory reply to the effect that credits are going to be phased out immediately so that we only have to purchase what we need.

If I do not receive a satisfactory reply within seven days, I shall be referring this matter to the financial ombudsman. In the meantime, I shall not be purchasing any more credits and I am actively looking for a more ethical alternative to WebsiteX5.

Best wishes,

Duncan

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

sorry - ***

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Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi Duncan,

please let me stress one again how sorry I am for this situation: you've been a customer for a pretty long time now, and I really feel sorry to know that you are so unhappy with Incomedia right now.

The Credit system has been put up this way for commercial reasons, so to promote the sale of credits, which have the advantage of allowing us to keep the price of the Marketplace resources are generally low. While I did report you as well as the other users' considerations, I am sorry to inform you that unfortunately we do not plan on applying changes to this system.

As we do understand that the expiration of unused credits is pretty uncomfortable for you as a customer, and as the satisfaction of our users is one of the highest priorities we have, I invite all the other users who might find themselves in a situation where a certain amount of credits is going to expire to e-mail our commercial department: in this way, we will be able to look into each single specific situation and find a solution which fits the person involved in the best way.

I thank you again and I wish you a nice day.

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Publicado en de Elisa B.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Thanks Elisa. 

I do not understand the commercial logic behind this but I do thank you for your kind attnetion to this.

I (and I think probably others) would rather pay a proper commercial price for templates etc rather than buy credits for something we do not want at the time and then sacrifice them when the number of credits does not match the credit price of what we are buying.

I'll leave it there - but I am not happy.

Duncan

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Sinisa B.
Sinisa B.
User

@ Duncan

My thoughts exactly!

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

There was a comment up earlier stating that it might be difficult for Incomedia to take payments for each individual template or item.

With all due respect - that has to be seen as rubbish. They can take money for credits OK.

Sharpen up Incomedia - websiteX5 is an excellent product - but it ain't the only one. 

Duncan

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I have just messaged this to WevsiteX5 on their facebook page:

Yes - but the reply was rubbish. I am sorry to repeat but your current approach with selling credits is theft. I repeat that - theft.There is no reason at all why you cannot be selling the products on line as we require them. Currently you make it almost impossible for us -your customers - to use all the credits we purchase. If we purchase something we want, there are always credits left over - or we have to buy more - which means these credits are wasted and the only person who benefits, financially, is you. I am not going to let this one go.I shall buy no more from Incomedia until you change your routine. Duncan

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Adrian B.
Adrian B.
User

There is one business case to be made for expiring credits.....

At an accounting level, how do you clear these "unearned revenue" items from the books? The only way is to make them expire.

Not a great policy for goodwill to your customers, but perhaps the only way to keep that item in the balance sheet from forever growing....

Adrian

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Publicado en de Adrian B.
Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

. . . . . . simply expire them 12 months after "protection" lapses?

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Publicado en de Esahc ..
John S.
John S.
User

@Esahc

One should think you were an Italian. Give users an offer they can't refuse : Buy our protection of we will take your credits.

Why should there be a connection?

Let user have the possibility to be able to renew credits. If a user does not renew, THEN they could take the credits.

As long as a user has an active account it indicates he uses the software. If he does not use the software/account then the credits will expire.

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Axel  
Axel  
User

@Adrian,

And regarding their financial results (public on the web) they need to win money... a lot ... Situation is not the better...

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

It occurs to me that the use of credits could actually make it more difficult for incomedia. I have just seen a template that I rather liked and would probably have bought if I could have used paypal or, even, a credit card directly. 

But:
1. I don't have enough credits.
2. If I buy more credits (and I have said I wouldn't) I would have a useless number of credits left over.

So I didn't buy it and incomedia have lost a sale. 

Duncan

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William J.
William J.
User

If Incomedia can charge for 85/55 or 25 credits then why not introduce the ability to purchase individual credits?

You could even charge them at a premium of say £1.00 each. This way Incomedia can have a sale, their customers have a way of getting the extra credits they need without being forced to purchase more than they need.

Incomedia also gain on another sale since the customer will be purchasing them to add to their total for another object or template they wish to purchase. 

Win for Incomedia and win for the customer, and on top of it all the customer feels that Incomedia are playing fair, no??

I for one will NOT be purchasing ANY credits any more since the deck is stacked against me from the outset. I have let my credits expire and have lost all faith in Incomedia. Hopefully they will see reason and change their model and play fair with their customers. Until then I see no reason to purchase anything from them.

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Publicado en de William J.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Well said William.

I don't even mind the annual licence as this allows Incomedia the freedom to improve the product - which they do on a fairly regular basis. It is this credits thing that really sticks in my craw. And, as yet, management has not had the courtesy to comment. One way to lose customers I suppose. 

Duncan

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Axel  
Axel  
User

customer satifaction is not !

It's a pity but a good way to loose customers and market shares.
i worked by the past with many italian people, never like this....surprisedyell

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Publicado en de Axel  
Nicole B.
Nicole B.
User

Wow great conversation going on. I too lost credits and nothing was done 2 years ago. I agree in the US we have gift cards that have no expiration date, so credits should not expire. They should be available for us when needed. Also I agree this years advent calendar sucks, there is nothing worth buying. Last year we had more objects, this year they seem to be pushing free software or templates that are not needed.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

It is a great shame that we are gettng no public statement from management here. 

You have a great product - please don't mess it all up with very poor customer service. 

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Publicado en de Duncan Baker
Dieter D.
Dieter D.
User

It feels all like a bit of a joke. Incomedia, a rather small (about 20 people) italian company, acting as they would be Microsoft or Apple. No, actually more like SAP with a very buerocratic support.

Inco should better know about EU laws regarding vouchers and similar (calling it "credits" is a very grey term) with short expiring terms not being within legal boundaries really.

Users get tired of standard answers "we will discuss internally" and the like where NO ANSWER COMES THEN FOR YEARS.

I remember same topic discussion (credits expiring) in summer 2018. No learnings, no real answers yet.

In a small company like Inco it should be easy to have better internal communication and decision structures. Topics like expiring credits, improvements to shop parts of X5, more payment systems,... are so old and nothing really moves. 

There are advantages using software from a small company like Incomedia but I have to say there are lots of disatvantages too.

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Donald B.
Donald B.
User

Interesting about the commuication, or lack of internally at Inco. As their org chart (see attached) shows 5 out of 21 as commuications for their job title. Translators maybe? 

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Publicado en de Donald B.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

And five for customer service laughing

Hello Stefano G, Anna M, Riccardo P and Sara D.

Elisa B - at least you have engaged. Thank you. Can you please kick management up the behind and say we - their customers - are not happy. 

There are other products and I am starting to look. 

Duncan

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Publicado en de Duncan Baker
William J.
William J.
User

I feel that Incomedia management will continue to ignore the issue as they seem to have done with many issues in the past in the hope that it will just all fade away.

While this may be true then they will have to accept that customers (if ignored) will also just "fade away" 

kudos to Elisa B for at least engaging in this debate I might add the only one from Incomedia but her last response sums up the companys attatude to this whole saga, quote

"While I did report you as well as the other users' considerations, I am sorry to inform you that unfortunately we do not plan on applying changes to this system."

this says it all as far as i am concerned. We don't listen to you or take your concerns seriously. We will carry on doing what we want and you "the customer" will just have to accept it.

Incomedia have a great product (needs a few things sorted out ) but unfortunately they have a terrible attatude to customers. Not a great way to conduct a business.

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Publicado en de William J.
Axel  
Axel  
User

No stress guys, they have time to take vacation !

And us, we need to work with the product, like it is... and to wait their coming back to have fixes.. or not.tongue-out

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Publicado en de Axel  
Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

Duncan, I know this is not the correct place, but I don't appear to be able to contact you thru your contact form (no check word)

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Luis S.
Luis S.
User

Well, Incomedia just went the predatory way, the biggest problems I see are:

They put objects that SHOULD COME INTEGRATED IN THE MAIN APP for sale (like buttons and galleries). So they force us to buy some of these "optional" objects.

We will always have credits left so we pay an extra no matter what, also the credits expire... plain theft.

The main App SHOULD HAVE BUGFIXES FOR FREE, no matter the "year protection" so we risk to be stuck with a half baked version (is there even a way to download old versions?).

I understand that this way of doing bussiness is tempting, but we, the old clients should have had a better treatment.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor
Esahc ..
Duncan, I know this is not the correct place, but I don't appear to be able to contact you thru your contact form (no check word)

Sorry - which website was that? lydbury.co.uk? Try *** 

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Publicado en de Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Working on the websites at the moment

Duncan Baker
Esahc .. Duncan, I know this is not the correct place, but I don't appear to be able to contact you thru your contact form (no check word) Sorry - which website was that? lydbury.co.uk? Try *** 
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John S.
John S.
User

Hello Luis

You are able to download old versions you are entitled to.

In your profile choose - Download.

Here you should see the versions you are allowed to download.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Actually...

Looking at all the alternatives, I think that X5 is thebest product on the market for what we want to do - integrated e-commerce and, finally, digital downloads. It doesn't do everything but it does quite a lot for the annual "licence".

It doesn't do everything but, in terms of value for money, it is not bad. 

But I just wish they would fix this credit malarkey. That really is annoying, unfair, and theft.

I would already have spent some more money wih them - but I will not do it through credits as the system exists. 

Duncan 

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Claudio A.
Claudio A.
User

I agree with all.

I think Incomedia should change Credits Policy to sell them starting from 1, 10, 25, 50, 85 (for esxample) and let the people choose what is more useful for. This avoid to lose the credits.

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Publicado en de Claudio A.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I am tempted by the Sweet Home template - but I am not buying it on credits.

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Hi Duncan,

What is the ”Sweet Home” template? I didn’t see anything by that name in the lncomedia marketplace.

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Hi Duncan,

OK, I just found it.

Sorry about that.

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William J.
William J.
User

so it would seem that Incomedia have even left out the few free credits off the advent calendar this year. This was maybe another way that we the customer could have got a few credits to put to what we were left with and maybe make use of without having to purchase another usless bundel.

It seems the focus on this years calendar was templates which we would purchase with credits, once again bringing into focus the credits issue. it's not a fair setup for us the customer.

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Publicado en de William J.
Axel  
Axel  
User

Nothing free with the advent calendar..like previous years.yell

Just push to buy....no needs because is less expensive.

It's really time to boycott it.tongue-out

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Publicado en de Axel  
James Becker
James Becker
User

This "Credit" scheme stinks!

I've been with X5 since version 8, but I'm looking for another application. WordPress, Joomla!, Drupal, etc.  sounding better every day. All 3 of thoses apps have tons plugins to do everything X5 does and more. Just saying.

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Publicado en de James Becker
Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User

In May i lost 3 credits, today the rest 4 credits but i had to too less to buy something useful and I don't plan to buy the next ones to lost them as previous ones. I hoped about free credits in adwent calendar but i am disappointed...

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Publicado en de Andrzej K.
William J.
William J.
User

yep the deck is stacked against the user/customer. NO free credits this year just a push to purchase. Even the "free" software turned out to be disappointing, just a trial version that we could get anytime of the year.

James Becker is just saying out loud what a lot of others are thinking/doing, myself included.

A great christmas present would have been Incomedia REALLY listening to their customers and FIX the problems instead of forcing more templates, most of which I could not purchase even if I wanted to because I did not buy into the much fanfaired Update Protection.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

Happy New Year everyone
Happy New Year websitex5
Happy New Year incomedia

Just to let you know, I am not going to let this one escape!            

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Publicado en de Duncan Baker
William J.
William J.
User

+1

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Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

Just had an email reminding me that my 16 credits are due to expire, so I will need to buy something that I do not need nor want or lose the credits. At least in bygone days Highway Robbers wore a mask when they fleeced you, now they hide behind company policy.

Here is an idea, why don’t Incomedia allow you to “bank” your unused credits towards your next purchase of Update Protection (or whatever they are calling it these days), if you don’t buy Update Protection you lose the value of your “banked” credits. Surely a “win win” situation, or is Incomedia firmly entrenched in the we win, users lose company mentality.

Over to you Incomedia.

Jim

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Better yet, stop buying ANYTHING from Incomedia.

l guarantee that will get their attention!

Then they will absolutely change their policies.

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William J.
William J.
User

Myron I agree. I stopped when they introduced the much fanfaired Update Protection. I let my credits go since I could not purchase anything with the credits I had left. I would have needed to purchase more credits that I needed to be able to use the credits that were running out and STILL be left in the same position with credits that cant be used. THIS IS NOT A GOOD SYSTEM INCOMEDIA. 

This will not change IMO. Incomedia have already made clear that they do not intend to change this money making policy of credits.

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

That's a good idea Jim C

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Claudio A.
Claudio A.
User

I agree too with Jim C!

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Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

It's like going into a shop to buy something at 80p. You give them a £1 coin and they say - sorry I haven't got any change. You either buy the 80p product - and it costs you £1 - or you don't buy it.

I am not even sure this is lawful. I am writing to my MP - we are still part of Europe until then end of the month :( 

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Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

Incomedia are really pushing credits, they have changed the appearance of the Object Management screen in

X5 see :

Hmmm, times must be getting hard really pushing for sales.

Jim

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Publicado en de Jim C.
Duncan Baker
Duncan Baker
User
Autor

I would buy more from them if it wasn't for this stupid credits thing.

I don't even mind paying annually for a licence if that means they have security of cashflow so they can push ahead with development - but the unfair system of credits really does make me want to look round for an alternative. I am about to start rebuilding three quite big websites of ours and, for thes first time n many years (literally), I am wondering if I should shop elsewhere.

There are none so deaf as those who do not want to hear :(

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

“It's like going into a shop to buy something at 80p. You give them a £1 coin and they say - sorry I haven't got any change. You either buy the 80p product - and it costs you £1 - or you don't buy it.”

Well, don’t ALL companies work this way?

Wait, maybe NOT.

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William J.
William J.
User

+1

Myron thats exactly right. No way I can see of using ALL of your credits in one purchase that I can see.

Can someone from Incomedia confirm IF there is a way to purchase credits and make a purchase that uses all credits that leave you with a nil balance. Is this even posible??

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Publicado en de William J.
Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi William, 

this depends on the number of credits left, on the number of packs still active on an account, and of course on the wished Marketplace resource. There are many possible scenarios, so it is difficult to predict a single exact rule that applies in all cases.

Thanks! I wish you a lovely day.

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William J.
William J.
User

Hi Elisa,

not really an answer then.

I think The best way for for everyone would be for Incomedia to just remove the credits system and have a set price for the templates and objects. That would be  fair.

why dont Incomedia have a poll on this and see what their customers think.

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Publicado en de William J.
Axel  
Axel  
User

Hey Wiliam,

Because incomedia wins money with their credit system... You loose your credit not used after one year... but already paid... Bingo for them...

It's their main objective ..."Win money"... Customer satisfaction is not their directive....

BTW Elisa, I am waiting many fixes promised by your CEO (I have his email during my exchange with him in Nov/Dec 2019) to fix many things into e-comemrce part, in the next version beginning of 2020... and today ... NOTHING.. as usual in fact....yell

Elisa or other moderator, if your are agree with me, don't hide my message like usual... . I can publish your CEO promises... (I have emails) not respected....surprised

It's a pity... but it's the reality...

https://wsx5.afsoftware.fr

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Publicado en de Axel  
Tom G.
Tom G.
User

Axel,

I also sent a long letter to CEO, in which I talked about issues we (the users) have. I critisized the e-commerce, too. This is what Mr. F.R. had to say about it in hir response to me:

I wonder what "upcoming years" means...

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Publicado en de Tom G.
Axel  
Axel  
User

foot-in-mouth

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Myron A.
Myron A.
User

Only 2200 hits on this message subject. l guess it’s not too important to Incomedia.

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Publicado en de Myron A.
William J.
William J.
User

Hi Myron, I think Incomedias idea is ignore it and it will eventually go away buried in the posts.

No it's not important to Incomedia so long as customers keep purchasing credits then they have no reason to change. The credit system is designed to draw you in with no way of using all your credit thus leaving you with unused credits which are useless.

Time that we the customer started making our feelings known, STOP buying credits. Only then will Incomedia start to take this seriously.

I still think that we will still be here when it hits 4000 hits though.

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Publicado en de William J.
Esahc ..
Esahc ..
Moderator

William, I am sure Incomedia are aware that we do not like expiring credits. I am sure (although have no proof) that sales of credits have declined.

I am equally sure (without proof) that the people moaning here were avid users of credits and this is no longer the case.

Incomedia WILL realise that expiring credits are destoying the credibility of WX5, they just need to find a way for their spin doctors (who created this money spinning exercise) to stop this stupidity without appearing to loose face.

I am enjoying the wait :-)

PS - please hurry Incomedia, there are 3 optional objects I would like to purchase :-)

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Publicado en de Esahc ..
Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi All,

I had logged onto Incomedia and was viewing the objects that I could buy (none of which I wanted) for my 16 credits which are due to expire in a few days, when this invite arrived in my email in box.

I started to complete it and when I got to the end, it did not ask any of the questions that I felt were really 

important and then realised that it was purely a way for Incomedia to make more money out of their loyal

users.

Needless to say, I did not submit the survey.

Jim

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Publicado en de Jim C.
Jan Van Den Berg
Jan Van Den Berg
User

Same here:  Why a survey????????

If they spent 2 hours and read this help centre and Ideas  they will know what the most people want:

- improving of the shopping-card - system

-  add more type of payment. ( ideal etc)

- Here was a very good solution made for the credit:  As long as your using this programm, the credits must not expire, make them renewal every-year,  I someone dead or does not use the programm anymore... then they do not renwal, so they will expire.

Just a few examples

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Publicado en de Jan Van Den Berg
Incomedia
Elisa B.
Incomedia

Hi there!

Please consider this survey in particular wasn't really centered on WebSite X5 itself. It was more focused on hosting and domain, as well as possible additional services, as we wanted to understand any possible interest our customers could have in this sense. I thank you anyway for having provided your feedback about the matter, and I hope I have clarified your doubts.

Thanks! Kind regards. 

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Publicado en de Elisa B.
Andrzej K.
Andrzej K.
User
Usuario del mes PL

But i didn't find answers correct for me and my situation - I don't want any other services from Incomedia like well working programm so I was forced to mark at least one untrue answer - use your effors for programm and new fuctionality, not for wasting time surveys, where there is no question about real problems of users. That's why I didn't renewal my programm - as an objection to the lack of real needed updates...

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Publicado en de Andrzej K.
Jim C.
Jim C.
User

Hi Elisa,

Thank you for your feedback, as always it is appreciated. However your survey email heading clearly states Products is WebSite X5 not an Incomedia product?

On completing the survey, it becomes quite apparent that Incomedia are considering setting up a web hosting service and as such are looking for feedback from WebSite X5 users as to whether this would be a viable (and valuable) business proposition. It does not give the impression that it is intended to Contribute to the development of your product Website X5, hence my post.

I would suggest that Incomedia carry out a user’s survey on WebSite X5, I am sure that Incomedia would gain very valuable feedback to enhance WebSite X5 and by doing so would keep their existing users and gain many more users.

Best wishes,

Jim

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William J.
William J.
User

Hi Jim C.

I agree with everything you have said BUT Incomedia are choosing to ignore their customers and it would seem their focus is on introducing new products to boost revenue. Jim C makes a valid point re the survey. 

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Publicado en de William J.
Axel  
Axel  
User

Hello Incomedia !!!

I would like to buy some new credits to get objects.
But do you have changed something in your credit "politic" for us (users ...) undecided

I am agreed to pay new credits now , but with NO EXPIRATION date

if you have not changed anything I will not buy them and I suggest to other users to do the same... tongue-out


It's your coporate decision to have loyal customers or not.

Thanks for your feedback

https://wsx5.afsoftware.fr

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Publicado en de Axel